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led a nato intervention to protect the muslims against bosnia muslims against serbia aggression, and then in afghanistan, one could argue that the toppling of the taliban in 2001, and i was there for that too, was a benefit for the afghan people, certainly for the women of that society, didn't like being ruled by medieval cult, and then, and then the, in terms of iraq, you know, overthrowing the united states -- the united states did overthrow a dictator based on maybe its misreading of intelligence and wmd, but it empowered the shia majority allowing them to exercise, well, to be part of the government in a way they could never have been otherwise. i think at this point in time, so many people have served in iraq for so long, i mean, talking about a conflict that started in 2003 and we still have a very largest embassy in the world there. there's a fine grain understanding among american experts about the differences between sueny and shia, and long the sunni and among the shia, that's not the issue. i do think that one thing that works against the united states is there's very
out with sanctions in places like panama and serbia and afghanistan and iraq, indeed, did not succeed. so does senator hagel have a point there? >> well, there's no question that multilateral sanctions are far more effective when we began the process with iran. one of the amendments that i actually put into that process was to ensure that the sanctions we put in place were much -- multilateral, and what we didn't do was really hurt those people who are friends, the very companies and countries that are our allies, so there's no question that when we put sanctions in place, we need to do everything we can to make sure that they are multilateral. one of the reasons that i want to spend time with chuck hagel is i think as richard haass pointed out, there's been a lot of one-liners, if you will, that have been looked at, and i want to dig in and find out whether that really is chuck hagel's view of the world or whether we're taking these things out of context, but certainly i have concerns as we move forward. they're not disqualifying concerns, and, again, i think the meetings that i have
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